What I hate about downtown Phoenix

Nov 18th 2009
Tags: random musings

What’s wrong with downtown Phoenix

Downtown Phoenix isn’t about businesses, buildings or parks. It’s about people. Those that live, work and/or play here make this place what it is.

It’s not that great. Plenty of potential, lots of usable space and we really haven’t done much. Copper Square is a failed experiment. Have you EVER seen that place busy? It’s impossible to walk anywhere north of I-10.

And what are we doing about it? Well, nothing, really. We’re having our little events and hoping that something good will happen. Then we congratulate each other.

It’s time to stop flailing blindly and get on the same page. Share our gripes and figure out a way to be better.

Here are mine:

1. Anything fun is spaced too far away. We have small little hives of activity connected with long, dark patches of absolutely nothing.

2. Most of the people living here are liberal artists. They don’t make much money, don’t understand how to make money and seem content with First Fridays for selling anything. Yeah, good luck with that.

3. We have tons of groups, yet no one talks to each other. Go ask the marketing person at the Phoenix Art Museum and he’ll tell you the same. We all have our own thing on our own day, and they’re all sparsely attended.

4. Everyone wants a creative class down here, but no one understands what the hell that even is.

5. Most are against anything corporate or chain, yet they don’t understand that’s where the money comes from.

6. Everything is shiny happy unicorn rainbows all the time. THE BEST EVENT EVER! First Friday was a blast! The little scavenger hunt we had changed my life (okay, that last one was actually fun)! It’s called perspective. Try it.

7. No one looks around. Nice Twitterhunt last week, CenPho businesses. Didn’t bother to check that many of the people using social media had their own GeekWeekAZ and were too tired to participate, did you?

8. Too many businesses think A) Twitter is the answer or B) don’t have a fucking clue what the internet, much less social media, even is. I live downtown and I don’t hear a damn thing about what goes on down here, and I’m constantly searching social media channels. It’s about BALANCE.

9. Everyone bitches, but no one bitches out loud and in public. Pissed about Modified Arts? SAY SOMETHING. Want to start a music venue? ASK AROUND.

10. We want our downtown to be just like someone else’s. Doesn’t work that way. While I love the Gaslamp District, our city leaders seem too concerned with north Phoenix to make that happen. You want to improve your city? DO IT.

11. Phoenix thinks it has an image problem, when Phoenix IS THE PROBLEM. It’s foot-burning, nose-drying, armpit-sweating hot five months every year here, and we have a downtown WITHOUT ANY SHADED SIDEWALKS.

12. You built a park in the middle of the city and didn’t bother to shade it. Instead, we got a floating cervix that only looks good at night. How fucking stupid are you people?

13. The AZ Republic still exists, apparently above questioning. Does anyone even read that rag anymore? Arpaio met with Biden? WHO’S REPORTING WHAT?

14. Businesses think Light Rail is the answer. No, being amazing is the answer, Light Rail is just a more efficient way of bringing people to you.

15. Too often, criticism is passed off as complaining. Ever try asking a critic if they’re willing to help? I bet they are!

16. ASU has been allowed to grow in the middle of downtown, without any sort of clear plan as to what role it will play in the community. Right now, it offers residents limited WiFi. Woohoo.

17. There’s always talk about shopping local, yet no one actually does it. Ever seen unmanageable lines at the Farmer’s Market? Me neither.

18. That people probably haven’t even read this far.

Agree or disagree, get down to Local Breeze on Tuesday, November 24 from 5:30-7:30pm and get your point across. You don’t count if you don’t show up.

Disclosure: I live at Roosevelt and Central, so any improvements to this city would directly benefit ME.

Cross posted on the DPJ.

Visit RadiatePhx for more downtown meetings.

Commentary from Derek Neighbors

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jeremie lederman

in Mill Ave's defense (as much as I also dislike it), it had to go the rout it did for a number of reasons. In 1994, Mill was friggn amazing. Live music everywhere, Hayden square had top acts, Gibsons was brining in bands like Soul Coughing and Mike Watt... it was amazing

Long Wongs had wings, 6 East had fights, Changin Hands had books... Rollins Market sold groceries and Tower had the best Cocteau Twins and John Zorn imports in the city.

but, towards the end of 1994, it was going BAD. Street Rat kids from all over the country were amassing everywhere (if you thought the punks with dogs and girlfriends and guitars was bad NOW... it's nothing).

Gangs were showing up, they had to put flood lights on the mill/university corner to flush out dealers...

I stopped going after 1995. Then Tempe gave into laws like anti squatting, more corporate stores (to run off the rats).

Tempe also gave huge subsidies to contrators and built tons of crap, tore out Wongs and the cool strip mall behind Chilies

Now who knows... it was sad to see it get to where it is now.

Matthew

I think concentration of talent can happen in more than one place, especially in this valley where we have so much room. I share your view that multiple "downtowns" could happen here. The key is to get a critical mass of people in one area. Density is not a guarantee of success; it's just one of the basic requirements which must be met. Getting enough people together will usually ensure that the concentration of talent is high enough to create an environment ripe for innovation.

Tyler Hurst

You're either fucking awesome or completely batshit crazy to leave your number in the comments, so I'm definitely going to call you.

You know we have this thing called email, right?

Tyler Hurst

You're either fucking awesome or completely batshit crazy

Tyler Hurst

But it's too far to drive!

Derek Neighbors

We've been assembling revolutionaries for a while... http://gangplankhq.com/

Rhonda

I'm trying to start a collaborative revolution....but we need more revolutionaries. Will you call me so we can chat? 602-370-3560.
Thanks,
Rhonda

Jose Gonzalez

Regarding Big Business swooping in and expecting them to liven things up: that's part of the problem.

Tempe's Mill Avenue was pretty hopping (from what I understand) until there was a shift to attract big business and chain stores to Mill. They rushed in, raised rents high enough to push out beloved local places, kicked it for a while, and then scooted out, leaving gigantic empty spaces. (You can check out this doc on how things played out: http://www.millaveinc.com)

It's part of the reason why Downtown Tempe Inc is trying to entice small / independent business back to Mill Avenue.

Big businesses and chain stores shouldn't be counted on to make an area viable as a destination or to fill in areas that are on the verge of being walkable and inviting as a neighborhood or gathering point. They're interested in their bottom line first and foremost, not the community. I don't fault them for that - that's just what they do.

The last thing downtown Phoenix needs to push is the same retail experiences that one can get anywhere else in the country as a reason to get out of the house and go downtown.

Personally, I think pursuing organic in-fill (in downtown Phoenix - other areas, I'm sure other folks know more about) via support for and heightened awareness of small and indie businesses is the way to continue to attract folks to downtown.

Derek Neighbors

I agree here. It goes back to be awesome and shade is a much lesser issue.

Derek Neighbors

I have been preaching for a while now that each city needs to get it's own downtown functioning. Seeing how many of the cities in metro phoenix are extremely large in size. we then need to be connecting those hubs.

Derek Neighbors

I have been

Derek Neighbors

Concentration of talent is important to innovation. Critically important. The question is does it have to be one single place in metro phoenix or can it be in more than one place?

Derek Neighbors

"It is too much about competition, not enough about working together to make each other's events successful."

Competition is a healthy thing, just not when it's not the primary thing. Collaboration over Competition. Some day we will understand this.

"Another part of your list that I agree with is the lack of ASU really getting it's hands dirty in the community. "

I call bullshit. Why the fuck should ASU be responsible for anything other than educating/producing/attracting talent and researching complex problems. Anything else is a waste of their time and our money. Do the thing you were created for and do it well.

"How about a downtown State Press? Something that actually has real journalism going on, tackling the gritty city issues. Let the Walter Cronkite students get out there, on the streets, really embed themselves into the heart of the city."

Are you willing to pay for this content? If not, stop asking people to create it for free. We need another piss poor press agency that can't sustain itself like we need another fucking ASU campus.

"Yes, Phoenix does have a heart, but it also has many souls."

Blah. Blah. Blah.. Fluff...

"You've got the folks who go to work, come home, hang with their family for a few hours, then go to bed and do it all over again. I really want those people involved."

If you want them involved go to where they actually live and choose to spend their time. It's not in Downtown Phoenix. No one is driving home to "hang" with their family only to drive back to the city to get involved.

"They may not be able to show up, all the time, but certainly, they do matter. Getting those folks out of their suburban cocoons is the real key to solving the problem. Attract more than just those who validate you now."

Why the fuck, should they have to leave where they choose to live to make where you choose to live better, by coming to you to participate? Has it ever occurred to you that someone that lives in the suburbs is actually CHOOSING to do so. That perhaps even they are getting involved. Involved with where they live and with what matters to them?

Rail Life

twist my arm, will ya'

Tyler Hurst

We should probably pre-drink this one.

Heather

I have nothing more to add, other than to simply say "amen".

Yuri Artibise

Agreed, they need to get out more and explore. As for blogs, a few of them have started the Downtown Devil, which isn't too bad, but could be a LOT better, especially for a team of journalism wannabees.

Yuri Artibise

Shade is an sytom of a larger problem. First, if the City focused on adaptive use and infill, rather than allowing buildings to be torn down (and them giving subsidies for mega-projects) there would be enough 'urban fabric' to allow for a density of interesting places that people would be willing to walk around regardless of the temperature. People walk for miles in the deepest NYC or Chicago winters, because there are interesting storefronts and activity on the street. People won't walk a block even in November in Phoenix because it is boring block walls or empty lots. In addition more buildings = more shade as more storefront = more awnings, umbrellas, and most importantly, more activity.

Tyler Hurst

Nothing for me to do on Taylor Mall. The reporters need to venture OFF the beaten path to get stories. Not going to be at their front door.

I get published every time I write something. Weird. Perhaps we should introduce these reporters to this blog thing.

Rail Life

"Agree or disagree, get down to Local Breeze on Tuesday, November 24 from 5:30-7:30pm and get your point across. You don’t count if you don’t show up."

I'm thinkin' a trip to Local Breeze on Tuesday might be kind of fun... Hurst, you are talkin' the talk, can't wait to hear/discuss how you ( we all ) can do a MUCH better job of "walkin' the walk."

Anonymous

Hang out on Taylor Mall during class time and you'll see a slew of Cronkite students looking for interviews, etc. subjects for class projects. Problem is they never seem to get published anywhere.

Tyler Hurst

It absolutely can and SHOULD have multiple destinations. The problem we have small hives of activity within the larger whole, when we need sustainable colonies.

By colonies I mean complete destinations with music, food, art, entertainment, gathering places, etc., ALL within walking distance of each other without massive dead spaces. From there we have a robust transportation system take us to and fro.

Richard

Why can't metro phoenix have multiple gathering sites? L.A. was always known for not having a downtown city core - cause it had, Santa Monica, Long Beach, Pasadena, Melrose, Los Feliz, etc, etc. Why can't we (as citizens of Metro phoenix) be happy with multiple gathering sites? i.e. Tempe, Chandler, Scottsdale, Biltmore, etc

On another point - Old Town Pasadena used to be a dump. It wasn't till big business starting coming to old town (Gap, Barnes & Noble, etc.) that it really took-off

Matthew

Density is a part of the answer. It would create the critical mass of people needed to have a thriving community. Of course, there also needs to be great public spaces (with shade) and great businesses.

I don't think you can have a really great urban area if everyone has to go home to the suburbs at night. People have to be able to stumble their drunk asses home after a fun evening, or at the very least not have a 30 min drive.

Tyler Hurst

Church and government seem to rule everything here. Why is that?

Tyler Hurst

Cronkite does have an AP of sorts, but it seems to be COMPLETELY online based. Would love for them to get out of the classroom and into the immediately community, not just traveling the world on Knight Foundation grants (ahem, Evan Wyloge).

Tyler Hurst

Is density the answer?

Matthew

You bring up some fine points, many of which I agree with, especially the fact that things are spaced out too far. Downtown is a reflection of the valley as a whole...we have tons of land, so higher density areas just haven't developed. The attitude in Phoenix seems to be that density is bad, but density is one ingredient which is needed to create a great downtown.

Alison Bawor

Good points! I second the clique issue. It is too much about competition, not enough about working together to make each other's events successful. I admit, I didn't make it to all the events of GeekWeekAZ that I'd hoped. Part of that was working, another part was just being plain exhausted. From October through May it is non-stop happenings here in Phoenix every weekend. So much is crammed into the glory months...

Another part of your list that I agree with is the lack of ASU really getting it's hands dirty in the community. I am an alumnus, and I love me some ASU, but honestly, they promised covered sidewalks to the City of Phoenix in their proposal, then didn't deliver. Sure ASU is pulling off some lovely art events and their school of nursing is making strides, however the community (i.e. City of Phoenix taxpayers) has invested in them, time to do something that brings people together. Dare I say it, but enough art already!

How about a downtown State Press? Something that actually has real journalism going on, tackling the gritty city issues. Let the Walter Cronkite students get out there, on the streets, really embed themselves into the heart of the city.

Yes, Phoenix does have a heart, but it also has many souls. You've got the folks who go to work, come home, hang with their family for a few hours, then go to bed and do it all over again. I really want those people involved. They may not be able to show up, all the time, but certainly, they do matter. Getting those folks out of their suburban cocoons is the real key to solving the problem. Attract more than just those who validate you now.

Tyler Hurst

Yep, Joe claimed to meet with him and the AZ Republic reported it that way, but no one else did. That's shameful work by the biggest newspaper in our state. You coming to the meeting next week?

Tyler Hurst

Polite discussion never seems to elicit a response or encourage people to do anything. We most want to avoid pain, rather than seek pleasure, so pointing out what's WRONG often tends to spur people into doing what's right.

The first part is even admitting that there is a problem. Phoenix seems far too concerned with how others see it, rather than how we see ourselves and what actually happens here.

I'd love to tell you I even had the slightest inkling of how to proceed, but I just don't know enough to make that happen. I need input and yes, to get more involved in my community.

Tyler Hurst

The floating cervix doesn't shade anything. Casting a shadow doesn't equate to shade in a design like that.

We have artists here that are doing great work, but everyone seems to be in their own little clique. That doesn't help anyone.

I live at Roosevelt and Central. Roosevelt Square.

Khamis

WTF #12? Looks like a lot of shade to me: http://flic.kr/p/6TARxT/

As for not knowing what's going on... but also complaining about the over use of twitter... um I don't get that. But yeah the community (especially the business community & Roosevelt Row CDC) realizes that's an issue. That's why this Social Media Strategy Workshop is going on tonight: http://www.facebook.com/#/event.php?eid=1732902...

As for ASU Downtown Phx's role in the community - it is shaping that now... there are art exhibits and open forums on the campus regularly, their largest academic units have active twitter accounts and they advertise through formal channels by having posters and fliers around downtown and at businesses... Check out this event they had last week at Welcome Diner: http://bit.ly/3TAqbF

And as for downtown being only artists... I think you might not be thinking downtown and instead thinking Roosevelt Row/First Friday. Because just walk along 3rd avenue south of Roosevelt and see how many artists you run into, or just walk through the deck park and up to Townsend - my neighborhood and see if the people living in all the apartment buildings around here are artists, because they're not. But the artists are the ones who are getting together and raising their voices above what's typical for around here.. so that's the image of downtown, and like how it goes for the rest of Phoenix, I think it's a false image and it's hard to get to the underlying truths. Gotta keep digging.

Corp chains 99% of the time don't give a damn about the community they sit in, case in point AZ Republic, which only cares about feeding Gannett profits.

Local money doesn't come from corp chains, it goes back to them, when you spend money at a local business it gets spent again in the local economy... if this created tax revenue we could capture that and use it for enhancing the infrastructure of the area.

Also where do you live downtown? I never run into you! You had a lot of good points though. I shop at the farmers market & don't believe in unicorns.

One of your readers

Some valid points about downtown: shaded sidewalks and "walkability" issues make a lot of sense. AZ Republic a rag? Yup (if only PHX had more fish to wrap), but even social media rules (and standards of professional conduct) require a conversational tone somewhere south of a rant to facilitate discussion. You don't draw people out by intertwining your politics or hashtagging artists in the convo. Why not just say "I'm only interested in the opinions of people like me?"

Sound business principles and economics should definitely factor into the discussion (especially when business and capital rise to fill need or niche) but quality of life issues can be discussed along the way too otherwise why even have trees that cost money or water??

Your skills in social media could facilitate a real discussion amongst both business and residents that could benefit everyone and allow/impel the unfortunately required politicians (insert reflexive opinion here) to get out of the way and facilitate forward motion. Become the man with the plan and you will be the man in demand as well...

#justsaying

crysohara

Okay I think I broke something. I hit post once and it sent the same reply three times.

CrysOHara

Interesting, I live in Mesa so me going to d/t Phoenix and complaining would be on deaf ears. To bad my Grandmother wasn't still alive because she would be right there with you Tyler. Just to let you know until she died she was the president of the block watch in the area of 24th St and Roosevelt. She fought with the city of Phoenix all the time. She wanted a park built so the kids didn't have to play in the street, they let a church be built there instead. She knew what was going on around Phoenix and she didn't like what was happening to d/t. Now my daughter is living in her house and she takes the light rail to the Farmer's Market every week. She also visits the library and she and I love going to first Fridays but you are right. "Where's the other events?" I live in Mesa and the Mayor of Phoenix's office won't quit e-mailing me. I get invited to all kinds of invites for his events. All because I would drive my grandmother to her events with his office.

Sorry didn't mean to get on a tangent, I agree with you and more people need to be fired up. There is no reason Phoenix couldn't have events and stuff down town and have the crowds like they do in Chicago. Here people don't get to know each other and how unfortunate is that.

Keith4President

Well I have a couple of issues about ur blog, but all in all I agree!...Joe a. didn't meet with him, it was on national news; it was actually just a hand shake that joe tried to boost his image by lying. And the thing about the light rail, which I love, is not efficiant ( which is
obvious ), but it sure is convenient; the drive behind urbanization and more dense development, not to mention it builds a stronger community.

tdhurst

(you can call me tyler)

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