What’s wrong with downtown Phoenix

by tdhurst · 83 comments

Downtown Phoenix isn’t about businesses, buildings or parks. It’s about people. Those that live, work and/or play here make this place what it is.

It’s not that great. Plenty of potential, lots of usable space and we really haven’t done much. Copper Square is a failed experiment. Have you EVER seen that place busy? It’s impossible to walk anywhere north of I-10.

And what are we doing about it? Well, nothing, really. We’re having our little events and hoping that something good will happen. Then we congratulate each other.

It’s time to stop flailing blindly and get on the same page. Share our gripes and figure out a way to be better.

Here are mine:

1. Anything fun is spaced too far away. We have small little hives of activity connected with long, dark patches of absolutely nothing.

2. Most of the people living here are liberal artists. They don’t make much money, don’t understand how to make money and seem content with First Fridays for selling anything. Yeah, good luck with that.

3. We have tons of groups, yet no one talks to each other. Go ask the marketing person at the Phoenix Art Museum and he’ll tell you the same. We all have our own thing on our own day, and they’re all sparsely attended.

4. Everyone wants a creative class down here, but no one understands what the hell that even is.

5. Most are against anything corporate or chain, yet they don’t understand that’s where the money comes from.

6. Everything is shiny happy unicorn rainbows all the time. THE BEST EVENT EVER! First Friday was a blast! The little scavenger hunt we had changed my life (okay, that last one was actually fun)! It’s called perspective. Try it.

7. No one looks around. Nice Twitterhunt last week, CenPho businesses. Didn’t bother to check that many of the people using social media had their own GeekWeekAZ and were too tired to participate, did you?

8. Too many businesses think A) Twitter is the answer or B) don’t have a fucking clue what the internet, much less social media, even is. I live downtown and I don’t hear a damn thing about what goes on down here, and I’m constantly searching social media channels. It’s about BALANCE.

9. Everyone bitches, but no one bitches out loud and in public. Pissed about Modified Arts? SAY SOMETHING. Want to start a music venue? ASK AROUND.

10. We want our downtown to be just like someone else’s. Doesn’t work that way. While I love the Gaslamp District, our city leaders seem too concerned with north Phoenix to make that happen. You want to improve your city? DO IT.

11. Phoenix thinks it has an image problem, when Phoenix IS THE PROBLEM. It’s foot-burning, nose-drying, armpit-sweating hot five months every year here, and we have a downtown WITHOUT ANY SHADED SIDEWALKS.

12. You built a park in the middle of the city and didn’t bother to shade it. Instead, we got a floating cervix that only looks good at night. How fucking stupid are you people?

13. The AZ Republic still exists, apparently above questioning. Does anyone even read that rag anymore? Arpaio met with Biden? WHO’S REPORTING WHAT?

14. Businesses think Light Rail is the answer. No, being amazing is the answer, Light Rail is just a more efficient way of bringing people to you.

15. Too often, criticism is passed off as complaining. Ever try asking a critic if they’re willing to help? I bet they are!

16. ASU has been allowed to grow in the middle of downtown, without any sort of clear plan as to what role it will play in the community. Right now, it offers residents limited WiFi. Woohoo.

17. There’s always talk about shopping local, yet no one actually does it. Ever seen unmanageable lines at the Farmer’s Market? Me neither.

18. That people probably haven’t even read this far.

Agree or disagree, get down to Local Breeze on Tuesday, November 24 from 5:30-7:30pm and get your point across. You don’t count if you don’t show up.

Disclosure: I live at Roosevelt and Central, so any improvements to this city would directly benefit ME.

Cross posted on the DPJ.

Visit RadiatePhx for more downtown meetings.

Commentary from Derek Neighbors

Tagged as: arizona, collections, dislike, downtown, downtown phoenix, ferenc gyurcs??ny's speech in balaton??sz??d in may, hate, internet memes, joe arpaio, maricopa county, north phoenix, people live, phoenix, phoenix art museum, radiatephx, scavenger hunt

Derek Neighbors

Concentration of talent is important to innovation. Critically important. The question is does it have to be one single place in metro phoenix or can it be in more than one place?
Derek Neighbors

I have been
Derek Neighbors

Concentration of talent is important to innovation. Critically important. The question is does it have to be one single place in metro phoenix or can it be in more than one place?
Derek Neighbors

I have been
Derek Neighbors

I have been preaching for a while now that each city needs to get it’s own downtown functioning. Seeing how many of the cities in metro phoenix are extremely large in size. we then need to be connecting those hubs.
Derek Neighbors

I have been preaching for a while now that each city needs to get it’s own downtown functioning. Seeing how many of the cities in metro phoenix are extremely large in size. we then need to be connecting those hubs.
Derek Neighbors

I agree here. It goes back to be awesome and shade is a much lesser issue.
Derek Neighbors

I agree here. It goes back to be awesome and shade is a much lesser issue.
Jose Gonzalez

Regarding Big Business swooping in and expecting them to liven things up: that’s part of the problem.

Tempe’s Mill Avenue was pretty hopping (from what I understand) until there was a shift to attract big business and chain stores to Mill. They rushed in, raised rents high enough to push out beloved local places, kicked it for a while, and then scooted out, leaving gigantic empty spaces. (You can check out this doc on how things played out: http://www.millaveinc.com)

It’s part of the reason why Downtown Tempe Inc is trying to entice small / independent business back to Mill Avenue.

Big businesses and chain stores shouldn’t be counted on to make an area viable as a destination or to fill in areas that are on the verge of being walkable and inviting as a neighborhood or gathering point. They’re interested in their bottom line first and foremost, not the community. I don’t fault them for that – that’s just what they do.

The last thing downtown Phoenix needs to push is the same retail experiences that one can get anywhere else in the country as a reason to get out of the house and go downtown.

Personally, I think pursuing organic in-fill (in downtown Phoenix – other areas, I’m sure other folks know more about) via support for and heightened awareness of small and indie businesses is the way to continue to attract folks to downtown.
Jose Gonzalez

Regarding Big Business swooping in and expecting them to liven things up: that’s part of the problem.

Tempe’s Mill Avenue was pretty hopping (from what I understand) until there was a shift to attract big business and chain stores to Mill. They rushed in, raised rents high enough to push out beloved local places, kicked it for a while, and then scooted out, leaving gigantic empty spaces. (You can check out this doc on how things played out: http://www.millaveinc.com)

It’s part of the reason why Downtown Tempe Inc is trying to entice small / independent business back to Mill Avenue.

Big businesses and chain stores shouldn’t be counted on to make an area viable as a destination or to fill in areas that are on the verge of being walkable and inviting as a neighborhood or gathering point. They’re interested in their bottom line first and foremost, not the community. I don’t fault them for that – that’s just what they do.

The last thing downtown Phoenix needs to push is the same retail experiences that one can get anywhere else in the country as a reason to get out of the house and go downtown.

Personally, I think pursuing organic in-fill (in downtown Phoenix – other areas, I’m sure other folks know more about) via support for and heightened awareness of small and indie businesses is the way to continue to attract folks to downtown.
Rhonda

I’m trying to start a collaborative revolution….but we need more revolutionaries. Will you call me so we can chat? 602-370-3560.
Thanks,
Rhonda
Rhonda

I’m trying to start a collaborative revolution….but we need more revolutionaries. Will you call me so we can chat? 602-370-3560.
Thanks,
Rhonda
Derek Neighbors

We’ve been assembling revolutionaries for a while… http://gangplankhq.com/
Derek Neighbors

We’ve been assembling revolutionaries for a while… http://gangplankhq.com/
Tyler Hurst

But it’s too far to drive!
Tyler Hurst

But it’s too far to drive!
Tyler Hurst

You’re either fucking awesome or completely batshit crazy
Tyler Hurst

You’re either fucking awesome or completely batshit crazy to leave your number in the comments, so I’m definitely going to call you.

You know we have this thing called email, right?
Tyler Hurst

You’re either fucking awesome or completely batshit crazy
Tyler Hurst

You’re either fucking awesome or completely batshit crazy to leave your number in the comments, so I’m definitely going to call you.

You know we have this thing called email, right?
Matthew

I think concentration of talent can happen in more than one place, especially in this valley where we have so much room. I share your view that multiple “downtowns” could happen here. The key is to get a critical mass of people in one area. Density is not a guarantee of success; it’s just one of the basic requirements which must be met. Getting enough people together will usually ensure that the concentration of talent is high enough to create an environment ripe for innovation.
Matthew

I think concentration of talent can happen in more than one place, especially in this valley where we have so much room. I share your view that multiple “downtowns” could happen here. The key is to get a critical mass of people in one area. Density is not a guarantee of success; it’s just one of the basic requirements which must be met. Getting enough people together will usually ensure that the concentration of talent is high enough to create an environment ripe for innovation.
jeremie lederman

in Mill Ave’s defense (as much as I also dislike it), it had to go the rout it did for a number of reasons. In 1994, Mill was friggn amazing. Live music everywhere, Hayden square had top acts, Gibsons was brining in bands like Soul Coughing and Mike Watt… it was amazing

Long Wongs had wings, 6 East had fights, Changin Hands had books… Rollins Market sold groceries and Tower had the best Cocteau Twins and John Zorn imports in the city.

but, towards the end of 1994, it was going BAD. Street Rat kids from all over the country were amassing everywhere (if you thought the punks with dogs and girlfriends and guitars was bad NOW… it’s nothing).

Gangs were showing up, they had to put flood lights on the mill/university corner to flush out dealers…

I stopped going after 1995. Then Tempe gave into laws like anti squatting, more corporate stores (to run off the rats).

Tempe also gave huge subsidies to contrators and built tons of crap, tore out Wongs and the cool strip mall behind Chilies

Now who knows… it was sad to see it get to where it is now.
jeremie lederman

in Mill Ave’s defense (as much as I also dislike it), it had to go the rout it did for a number of reasons. In 1994, Mill was friggn amazing. Live music everywhere, Hayden square had top acts, Gibsons was brining in bands like Soul Coughing and Mike Watt… it was amazing

Long Wongs had wings, 6 East had fights, Changin Hands had books… Rollins Market sold groceries and Tower had the best Cocteau Twins and John Zorn imports in the city.

but, towards the end of 1994, it was going BAD. Street Rat kids from all over the country were amassing everywhere (if you thought the punks with dogs and girlfriends and guitars was bad NOW… it’s nothing).

Gangs were showing up, they had to put flood lights on the mill/university corner to flush out dealers…

I stopped going after 1995. Then Tempe gave into laws like anti squatting, more corporate stores (to run off the rats).

Tempe also gave huge subsidies to contrators and built tons of crap, tore out Wongs and the cool strip mall behind Chilies

Now who knows… it was sad to see it get to where it is now.
Pingback: Downtown Phoenix: Don't Hate the Haters | Yuri Artibise
Pingback: Why RadiatePhx Matters | Yuri Artibise
Pingback: Governance: Fixing Downtown Phoenix (Ideas into Action) « Notes from CoPP e-Learning
Pingback: Matthew Petro » Followers are important too
Rail Life

“Agree or disagree, get down to Local Breeze on Tuesday, November 24 from 5:30-7:30pm and get your point across. You donâ€™t count if you donâ€™t show up.”

I'm thinkin' a trip to Local Breeze on Tuesday might be kind of fun… Hurst, you are talkin' the talk, can't wait to hear/discuss how you ( we all ) can do a MUCH better job of “walkin' the walk.”
joeyhammer

i agree with everything except that lite rail is more efficient…more efficient than busses? not if you consider the cost and the inability to relocate lite rail to changing needs.

the biggest problem with phoenix is that it it is culturally divided in 4 and is widely dispersed. When moving here I had a choice. move downtown, move to scottsdale, move to north/west valley for the love of sports (HOCKEY winter BASEBALL NASCAR FOOTBALL) or tempe/chandler. most cities would have all 4 of those places centrally located but noooo not phoenix. they have race tracks on both sides of town 50 miles apart. and building westgate in the middle of a 75% hispanic neighborhood and offer hockey 3 nights a week? 45 minutes to an hours drive away from the other 3 parts of town….kinda makes it hard to enjoy everything the city has to offer and it will never change considering they are still doing stupid things.

then consider demographics more than half the city isn't white so you have some pretty huge cultural/racial divides that prevent the arts from reaching critical mass especially when you toss in the large proportion of retirees here. so slice and slice and slice and before you know it your county with 4 million people behaves like a series of towns and communities sized at 25,000 each. and the quality of life is nowhere near ny chicago la and i never thought i would say this but even philly has more culture…ouch. seattle, denver, austin…they should be our blue prints to create what phoenix is lacking.
joeyhammer

i am looking for live/work space for music photographer/models indie films/music videos and if you want to have a buzzing industry give me 1500 sq feet with 15ft high walls for $750 a month with ample parking and I am sure we can fill downtown with at least 5,000 artists of all types. the problem is you won't make any money off us and as soon as we make it we will leave and go to a bigger market. so be happy as an incubator or be happy with nothing. i kinda like the incubator idea it goes hand in hand with mentorship and maybe we could tap into some of the old retiring hippies to teach the younger generation a thing or two about art history.
joeyhammer

phoenix will never have events like chicago. the city is built on a lake so it is a big draw in the summer. there is no big draw in a phoenix summer except to go away from phoenix cuz its 120 degrees out. its really as simple as that. i went to a summer concert once. i went to the 4th of july in peoria once. now i drive up sit in my car wait for the fireworks to start get out for 10 minutes jump back in and go home…in chicago i will spend 3 days in grant park area, boating, eating at the taste of chicago, go to the aquarium, museums, planetarium, concerts in the park all in a 2 mile area with train service to cubs and sox too. phoenix will never be chicago. impossible.
Evan Wyloge

How did I get dragged into this?